MICHAEL LISHMAN

Gresham Advisory Partners’ new Perth boss tells Peter Klinger social media is no match for face-to-face interaction.

Best career break?

My one and only job interview, which was getting articles in 1982 at Stones James (now King & Wood Mallesons). It was at the beginning of my last year (of law) at UWA. I had put out a lot of applications and probably got half a dozen interviews. This was the first interview, they made me an offer and I accepted and went surfing.

Describe your leadership style.

I try to give a clear outline of strategy for everyone so they have the context in which to act and then basically delegate and give people a lot of headspace to get on with. When I was 26 and in London working for Linklaters, I worked closely with Charles Allen-Jones, one of the top corporate partners at Linklaters. He was very inspiring and he certainly did that, he gave you a lot of space to sink or swim.

Most memorable executive experience?

The period of September 2008 to March 2009 — the global financial crisis — so it’s not a happy memory, I don’t want to go through it again. (His law firm) Cochrane Lishman had the Bankwest sale to Commonwealth Bank, Coogee Resources’ sale to the PTTEP, and a hostile bid by CBH Resources for Perilya, at the same time as worrying, like everyone, about what is going on, is the whole financial system going to collapse.

What triggered your move into investment banking?

I had a long career in law which professionally was very rewarding. The last deal I did was the Apache sale (of assets to Woodside Petroleum, which settled this month). Most of what I have done is M&A and finance so it’s not that big a jump. But it is a challenge starting a new career at what is probably a low point in the economic cycle. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. I will hopefully learn new tricks.

Do you use social media?

I am a bit of a Luddite on social media. I have got a LinkedIn thing which I mainly use to track down old school and uni friends and work colleagues. I have a Facebook account which I set up once while my daughter was travelling around Europe. Investment banking, like law, is mainly about trust and you can’t build a relationship of trust with someone unless there is face-to-face interaction. (Social media) is really useful but it doesn’t replace the need to deal with people face to face.

Is wining and dining still a must-do for corporate advisers?

Yes. For one, I love it, I don’t need much to be persuaded. You need to get to know people and people have always socialised by breaking bread together. There is a lot more emphasis now on dining rather than wining, because of health and time. I am doing at least two if not three meetings a day. Most are coffees but a couple of lunches and a dinner each week. It’s no hardship.

Best holiday destination?

We may go to Borobudur in Indonesia in July. We go to Melbourne a lot because our daughters live there.

Last book read?

Upton Sinclair’s World’s End, written in the 1940s and part of a series of 11 novels about a central character called Lanny Bud. My father read them when he was a teenager so we have bought him the series, and as he finishes a book, I read it.

Are investment bankers overpaid?

Most of the pay comes from success fees. You won’t get paid unless a deal happens, which is the major difference between investment banking and law and accounting. So what you get paid really depends on a bit of luck, how hard you work, and the state of the market.

Why did you and partners sell Cochrane Lishman Carson Luscombe to Clifford Chance in 2011?

Most boutique firms don’t survive the death or retirement of their founders. Clifford Chance provided the answer to whatever happened to Ian Cochrane and Michael Lishman. And as professionals we are driven to a fair degree by professional pride (so) to be invited to be a partner of a (London) magic circle firm is a big achievement.

Is Perth’s legal sector better for the arrival of the big global firms?

There is more choice for clients and more competition. With Clifford Chance, Allen & Overy, Linklaters, Ashurst or whatever it has provided an opportunity for lawyers in Perth to work for an international firm that is plugged in these days more into China and Singapore, from the Perth office point of view, and that is a good thing. More graduates will be employed and the experience some of them get will be broader and, ultimately, that is a good thing for Perth. The effect of global firms entering the Australian market is overstated. What a global firm wants to do in a market like Australia is make sure it gets the Australian end of a cross-border deal. The bigger threat to law firms comes from the accounting firms because they aspire, in everything they do, to be the biggest.