Paula Vennells told she was in 'la-la land' as ex-Post Office boss again breaks down in tears at Horizon inquiry

Ex-Post Office boss Paula Vennells has been accused of being in “la-la land” as she gave evidence for a third day at the Horizon IT inquiry.

Under tough questioning she again broke down in tears - something she has done multiple times in the last few days of testimony - as she said she “loved the Post Office”.

The 65-year-old ordained priest grew visibly upset, before pausing to compose herself and continuing: “I worked as hard as I possibly could to deliver the best Post Office for the UK.”

Sam Stein KC, a lawyer acting on behalf of a number of subpostmasters, responded: “That sounds like absolute rubbish.

“Ms Vennells, you’re not stupid,” he continued. “You were pushing forward under network transformation.

“And yet here, all of these facts were adding up to there being a real problem, a really difficult problem to chew over, right the way through 2013.

“And you failed didn’t you? You failed to ask the right questions. You couldn’t be bothered, could you Ms Vennells?

“The risk was too great. Looking under that rock, you’re going to find a problem, it’s going to devastate the Post Office. Ruin it. And you couldn’t let that happen, could you Ms Vennells?”

Earlier, Ms Vennells said there was “no one to blame” but herself for what happened during the scandal, as she said there are “no words” that will make the “sorrow and what people have gone through any better”.

It came as hundreds of subpostmasters caught up in the Post Office Horizon scandal were to have their names cleared on Friday, after Parliament on Thursday backed legislation to quash their convictions.The Post Office (Horizon System) Offences Bill was set to receive royal assent on the final sitting day of Parliament before it halts its business ahead of the July 4 General Election.

Under questioning from Edward Henry KC, a lawyer representing a number of subpostmasters, accused Ms Vennells of being in “la-la land”.

“This is la-la land, isn't it?" he said of the version of events Ms Vennells was putting forward, to laughter from the room.

Edward Henry KC, representing subpostmasters

Under questioning from Mr Henry, Ms Vennells earlier admitted she “didn’t always take the right path”.

She told the hearing she lost all employment since the Court of Appeal passed a judgment which ultimately led to a number of subpostmaster convictions being overturned.

Beginning his questioning, Mr Henry said; “There were so many forks in the road but you always took the wrong path, didn’t you?”

Ms Vennells said: “It was an extraordinarily complex undertaking and the Post Office and I didn’t always take the right path, I’m very clear about that.”

Mr Henry went on: “You exercised power with no thought of the consequences of your actions despite those consequences staring you in the face?”

The former chief executive replied: “The scheme was set up and for the time that I worked on that I believed … that we were doing the right things and clearly that was not always the case. We did look at the consequences.”

She added: “I understand your point that there are no words that I can find today that will make the sorrow and what people have gone through any better.”

Questioned on whether she had anyone to blame but herself during the scandal, Ms Vennells said: “Absolutely. Where I made mistakes and where I made the wrong calls … where I had information and I made the wrong calls, yes, of course.”

Mr Henry continued: “Well, you are responsible for your own downfall, aren’t you?”

She replied: “From when the Court of Appeal passed its judgment, I lost all the employment that I had, and since that time, I have only worked on this inquiry.

Edward Henry, representing subpostmasters

“It has been really important to me to do what I didn’t, or was unable to do at the time I was chief executive – and I have worked for three years and prioritised this above anything else – for the past year it has probably been a full-time job.

“I have avoided talking to the press, perhaps to my own detriment, because all the way through, I have put this first and I was not working alone on this.

“I cannot think that any of the major decisions I took by myself in isolation of anybody.”

She added: “I did my best through this. And it wasn’t good enough, and that is a regret I carry with me.”

Mr Henry continued: “I suggest to you that you still continue to live in a cloud of denial and it persists even to today because you have given in 750-odd pages (of a witness statement) a craven, self-serving account, haven’t you? ‘I didn’t know, nobody told me, I can’t remember, I was not shown this, I relied on the lawyers’.”

Ms Vennells replied: “I have tried to do this to the very best of my ability. I have taken … all of the questions I was asked. I have answered them honestly, no matter how difficult or how embarrassing or how wrong I was at the time. I don’t believe I could have worked harder for this.”

Mr Henry went on: “What I’m going to suggest to you is that whatever you did was deliberate, considered and calculated. No one deceived you, no one misled you. You set the agenda and the tone for the business.”

Ms Vennells responded: “I was the chief executive, I did not set the agenda for the work of the scheme and the way the legal and the IT parts of it worked.

“I had to rely on those colleagues who were experts and I had no reason not to take the advice that I was given. I accept I was chief executive and, as I have said, as a chief executive you have ultimate accountability and that is simply fact.

“You are not responsible for everything that happens underneath you. You have to rely on the advice of internal and external experts and that is what I did and I was not working alone on this.”

She added: “I did my very best through this, and it wasn’t good enough, and that is a regret I carry with me.”

More than 700 subpostmasters were prosecuted by the Post Office and handed criminal convictions between 1999 and 2015 as Fujitsu’s faulty Horizon IT system made it appear as though money was missing at their branches.

Hundreds of subpostmasters are still awaiting compensation despite the Government announcing that those who have had convictions quashed are eligible for £600,000 payouts.