Violence on the streets
MAN: "Just out for a walk on my way back. Not in trouble, not watching my back. Caught off guard, not expecting what comes. One with a knife, the other has guns."
PJ MADAM: Two weeks on, still in full bloom. The street where Lee Rigby was killed, a place of grief. Frustration, anger. What happened here in the London suburb of Woolwich is a story of murder and madness. And it's a story that's still unfolding. Ingrid, let's start
from the beginning of the day. Did it begin like an ordinary Wednesday?
INGRID: Yes. Um, got up had breakfast, a bath, packed my stuff and went to take the bus, the 53.
PJ: Ingrid Loyau-Kennett is a 48-year-old mother of two originally from France who became an accidental angel when her bus pulled over at the scene of Lee Rigby's murder.
INGRID: The bus stopped about here and then through the window, I... The body was there, lying and the car had pulled over there. I was looking through the window to what seems to be a road accident, a crashed car on the pavement and a body on the road and a black guy nervously walking fro and to in front of the car.
PJ: What made you get off the bus, given it wasn't your stop?
INGRID: Well, because of the body on the road and I thought, nobody is not doing anything, the bus not going anywhere. So, yes, I go out and help, yeah. I got out, to the body there and, um, well, I stopped and took his hand, take the pulse and there was no pulse.
And when I wanted to do more, he came and said, "Don't touch the body." When I rose my head, the first thing I could see, it's two bloodied hands and one carrying a revolver. The other one, a meat cleaver and a butcher's knife and both were really covered with blood as well.
PJ: And what did you say to him?
INGRID: "Why?" He said, "Because he's a British soldier and I've just killed him."
PJ: It was only then that Ingrid realised that the soldier on the road had been run down by the blue car and then murdered by the man she was now talking to and his accomplice.
INGRID: I ask him, "Why a British soldier?" He said, "Well, they kill people with the bombs in Muslim countries "so...I kill them back."
PJ: Lee Rigby did a lot of his growing up on these streets. 'Riggers' as he was called, was known as a polite and funny man, sports mad, the eldest boy of a tight-knit family. The day he was killed was his last day in London for a little while he was just hours away from coming back up here to spend time with his family. Lee Rigby was a father of one, husband to Rebecca, son of Lynn and stepson of Ian.
FATHER: Lee was a man who loved people. He had many friends growing up in Middleton and on army duties all over the world where he'd been sent. He believed life was for living and he will be sorely missed by all who knew him.
MICHAEL ADEBOLAJO: We must fight them as the fight us - an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. I apologise that women had to witness this today but in our land, our women have to see the same. You people will never be safe - remove your government, they don't care about you!
PJ: Michael Adebolajo, you recognised him straight away?
CHOUDARY: I recognised him after somebody pointed out that this could be somebody who used to attend some of our demonstrations.
PJ: What Michael Adebolajo and the other accused murderer, Michael Adebowale, had in common are the teachings of the London-based Islamist preacher Anjem Choudary. Hello. Good afternoon.
CHOUDARY: Hi there. How is everybody?
PJ: PJ from Sunday Night.
CHOUDARY: I can't shake your hand, I am afraid. It's etiquette, man and women, I can shake his hand, though.
PJ: Right. OK. OK. PJ from Sunday Night. How do you do? This is Anjem Choudary leading a rally in 2007. That's Adebolajo behind him. He and the other alleged killer, Adebowale, were both Christians who converted to Islam. Here's Adebolajo leading a rally in 2009. He's telling this crowd that non-Muslims are worse than pigs and cattle. He lived here in this flat, a few kilometres from Woolwich.
CHOUDARY: Yeah, I remembered him as a very peaceful man, a very calm man, impeccable character, very good Muslim, very keen to attend demonstrations, processions, etc. Very keen to study about Islam. I think he was a very good Muslim, in fact.
PJ: Do you still believe he's a good Muslim now?
CHOUDARY: I believe that he IS a good Muslim, absolutely.
PJ: So what he did on the street that day where he killed an innocent man, do you believe he's a good Muslim?
CHOUDARY: Well, I think that you should answer the question of the British and American soldiers on the streets of Baghdad...
PJ: Mr Choudary, it does not work that way.
CHOUDARY: and Kandahar. Are they innocent when they are killing Muslims? Are they heroes in your eyes or not? There're Australian soldiers who go to Afghanistan and they murder men, women and children - are they heroes?
PJ: If this happened to an Australian soldier, what would you say? No, I am asking, I am asking... If this happened to an Australian soldier in the middle of Pitt Street Mall, what would you say?
CHOUDARY: The Australian soldiers who help the Americans with their drone attacks, who support the Americans with Guantanamo Bay, who help the Americans occupy Muslim land and kill innocent men, women and children, are they heroes in your eyes?
PJ: Mr Choudary, do you have no compassion?
CHOUDARY: How is that you are asking for compassion for one British soldier who died in the streets of London...
PJ: Mr Choudary, all death is bad...
CHOUDARY: but yet you have no compassion whatsoever for hundreds of thousands of innocent men women and children?
PJ: Choudary's extreme views are finding an audience among impressionable young followers...some of whom have policed the streets of London, enforcing sharia law.
CHOUDARY: Pornography will be banned, alcohol will be banned, gambling will be banned.
PJ: What if people like the system that they live under?
CHOUDARY: They can like it as much as they want, we have authority and we implement the sharia, you have no choice but to live under the sharia in Australia. You may like the corruption of man-made law but the sharia, and obviously Allah, knows what's better for all of us and the sharia will be implemented.
PJ: So you believe that Australia will one day be under sharia law?
CHOUDARY: Of course, I'm certain about it. I believe that the flag of Islam will fly over the parliament building in Australia as much as it will in America and in Moscow and all parts of the world. The whole world will one day be under the authority of the Muslims implementing the divine law of Islam.
PJ: So everyone will be happier under sharia law.
CHOUDARY: They may not be happy, but we will have the sharia one day.
PJ: Choudary has not always practiced what he preaches. As outspoken as he is on sharia...any mention of his wild younger years and all you'll get is silence. Tell me about your uni days.
CHOUDARY: I don't want to discuss anything apart from my views today.
PJ: You don't want to talk about your previous time back at university?
CHOUDARY: No, I want to talk about my views today. I think they are irrelevant to my history.
PJ: But, I mean, it's well documented that you had a bit of a wild time.
CHOUDARY: There are a lot of lies, there are a lot of lies spread in the media, a lot of fabricated photographs. But I would rather talk about my views today.
PJ: Well, it's just - did Islam save you?
CHOUDARY: I'll give you one more opportunity and then I'll leave the interview. I don't want to talk about anything apart from my views today. So if you ask me another question, then we can stop the interview.
PJ: Right. Since I have stepped foot in this country, I've heard the following words describe you and that's that you are dangerous, you're vile, you're evil, you're extremist, you are an idiot, a nutter, an appalling man who represents no-one. Is any of that true?
CHOUDARY: You know, these - if you like, labels - are medallions for me, which I will wear very proudly on the day of judgment.
PJ: He's the most hated man in the UK at the moment.
TOMMY ROBINSON: I beg to differ. I say, somehow it's me. I'm supposed to be one of the most hated man in the UK at the moment.
PJ: Tommy Robinson, a former football hooligan who's found his calling, leading the far right English Defence League.
TOMMY: I bet I've had more death threats and attacks, Anjem Choudary has never had a black eye or bloody nose. Do you know what I mean? He walks around freely. I don't. So...
PJ: Are you saying you've got something common with the man?
TOMMY: Well...I want freedom, he wants sharia.
PJ: You actually believe it is a war?
TOMMY: No, I know it's a war.
PJ: A proper war?
TOMMY: They have launched a war. A jihad was launched years ago. There is a worldwide jihad going on and it's here, it's on our shores.
PJ: His crusade against radical Islam has made him a marked man.
TOMMY: I'll tell you what keeps me up at night - I have had official warnings, I have had terrorists wanting to kill me, I have had threats to decapitate my children. In the last probably two weeks, I have had 200 death threats to kill me, murder me, rape my wife, murder my mum - everything keeps me up at night.
PJ: Are you scared of Islam?
TOMMY: I'm petrified of it. Terrified of it. Sharia law, oppressing women, homophobia, anti-Semitism, anti-demographic, anti-freedom - can't get much more violent, extreme. Something's got to change. If it's just left the way it is, this country is heading - we're sleepwalking in oblivion. Everyone needs to wake up to the threat that it lays ahead for the next generation of our kids. What's happening now with Lee Rigby is the catalyst for it. People have had enough. The British people have had enough.
PJ: One the night of May 20, Lee Rigby is videotaped buying a pizza. He's wearing the same 'Help for Heroes' hoodie that would help his killers identify him as a solider two days later. It's the 22nd of May. Lee Rigby has spent much of the morning working as an army recruiter in the city. He returns here and walks these busy streets to get to Woolwich Barracks, the entrance just a couple of hundred metres back that way. At the same time, Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale are driving around the streets of the barracks looking for a target - a soldier. They found one. Witnesses say their car swerved through here, crosses the road towards where Lee was walking. They accelerated, they hit the curb, they hit Lee, dragging his body until they crashed into that pole.
Adebolajo and Adebowale jump out of the car and run towards Lee, stabbing him with a meat cleaver and a knife. Then, in full view of anyone who's around, they drag his body into the middle of the street to show people what they'd done. It's then that Ingrid Loyau-Kennett comes face to face with one of the knife-wielding attackers. There was a part of the conversation where you told him, "You're not going to win, you'll never win."
INGRID: Yeah. I told them, "You versus them." Yeah, I mean, "You're never going to win. Never, ever, ever."
PJ: And then you just simply hopped back on the bus, is that right?
INGRID: Yes, yes. I went back to the bus. But within 10 seconds of me being in the bus, somebody rushed in and shout, "Lay down, everybody! Down, down!"
PJ: Police had their guns drawn and Adebolajo charged at them. He was shot twice. Adebowale, six times. Both men survived. Lee Rigby leaves behind his wife, Rebecca, and 2-year-old son, Jack.
REBECCA RIGBY: I just want to say I love Lee, I always will and I am proud to be his wife. He was due to come up this weekend so we could continue our future together as a family.
TOMMY: All we want to do is just pay our respects lay some flowers, have a minute's silence, let everyone know how distraught the whole country is. (RECITES) As if by command, they salute all as one, the RSM smiles as he says "Welcome home, son."
PJ: Was Lee Rigby the enemy in your eyes?
CHOUDARY: I think the biggest enemies and the terrorists in the world today, are the American government and the British and their own allies, like the Australians, for the crimes that they are committing.
PJ: Was Lee Rigby the enemy?
CHOUDARY: I think that Lee Rigby was a British soldier, he was part of the British army. At the current time, the British government and their own army are committing atrocities in Muslim countries. And they have allies like the Australians and the Americans.
As far as the Muslims around The world are concerned, they are committing crimes. You know, we believe that the whole of mankind has been created to worship God, the messenger Mohammed, sent for the whole of mankind. Every prophet before was sent to his own people. So we believe the Sharia will govern the whole world one day. In fact, we have been informed, as a prophecy, that will be the case in the east of the East and the west of the West, that Muslims will have authority.
TOMMY: Oh, it's coming. Simple. It's coming - I'll tell you straight. You've got Islam is your country. It's coming.
INGRID: Another bright star standing up in heaven at night never ever will we be forgetting you. never ever will we be forgetting you.
PJ: As for Ingrid, her courage and caring has been embraced by the British as a sign of hope and strength during a troubled time. How did your children react?
INGRID: My son was upset. He said, "Mum, you could have been killed." Later on, when he learned he was a terrorist, "Mum!" He was really, really, really, really upset. But now they're proud of me. I'm a bad-ass Mummy now.
Rest in peace, Lee. You fought for your country and did it well. You will always be our hero.
