Tim Walz’s Deep China Ties Could Spell Trouble for Democrats
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With relations between Washington and Beijing at a critical point, US Democratic Vice Presidential candidate Tim Walz's time in China has come under scrutiny from Republicans. Walz first went to China as a teacher in 1989 after the Tiananmen Square military crackdown. Over the years, he continued to return to China, even spending his honeymoon there.
On today's Big Take Asia Podcast, host K. Oanh Ha talks to Bloomberg’s Daniel Ten Kate and Professor Li Cheng from the University of Hong Kong about what Walz’s track record on China could mean should the Democrats win the election – and whether Walz’s ties with the country would be an asset or liability.
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Here is a lightly edited transcript of the conversation:
K. Oanh Ha: This week, Republican Senator JD Vance and Democrat Tim Walz are squaring off in the first US vice presidential debate. One hot button issue that could come under the spotlight – the Minnesota governor’s deep ties to China.
Tim Walz (in Mandarin): How are you?
Walz (in English): Governor Tim Walz here. Happy Chinese New Year.
Daniel Ten Kate: Tim Walz was in China as a young person at a very formative time in his life.
Ha: Daniel Ten Kate is Bloomberg’s executive editor for Asia economy and government based in Hong Kong.
Ten Kate: It started back in 1989. He graduated from a state college in Nebraska, and then he headed over to Hong Kong for a language training program.
Ha: Walz was in Hong Kong preparing to teach in mainland China. But after China’s military crushed pro-democracy protests, leaving hundreds – possibly thousands – dead, many of his colleagues decided to go home instead. But Walz went ahead. He said he felt that for him it was “more important than ever” to go to China. And he called the deadly Tiananmen Square protests an “unthinkable” event.
Ten Kate: And that was kind of a shocking event for him. Something you definitely couldn’t forget. In fact, he got married on June 4 to commemorate the Tiananmen anniversary.
Ha: Over the years, Walz continued to return to China, on trips that took him to different regions of the country. He’s often spoken fondly of his experiences in the country and the people he met.
Ten Kate: He's actually said, if someone tells you that they're an expert on China, they're probably not telling you the truth because it's a complex country.
Ha: And his nomination comes at a critical point in US-China relations.
Li Cheng: Two countries in a really dangerous track for clash. Whether it be South China Sea or Taiwan or cyber, et cetera. So it's really a very difficult time, very dangerous time.
Ha: That’s Li Cheng, a political science professor at the University of Hong Kong. He also spent nearly two decades in Washington, DC, as a director and senior fellow at the Brookings Institution’s John L. Thornton China Center.
Li: In the Washington atmosphere, we usually see China as a major threat. It's a matter of war and peace. With a political leader in that position, whether China is enemy or friend or partner or competitor, no matter what you characterize China. It is very important to serve American interests, to understand the Chinese philosophies.
Ha: Welcome to the Big Take Asia from Bloomberg News. I’m Oanh Ha. Every week, we take you inside some of the world's biggest and most powerful economies, and the markets, tycoons and businesses that drive this ever-shifting region. Today on the show: Tim Walz’s long history with China – how that could influence his stance on foreign policy – and if the Democrats win the election – would Walz’s connections to China be an asset or liability?
Ha: Okay Dan, so Tim Walz first visited China in 1989 just fresh out of college. Give us a picture of China at that time.
Ten Kate: It certainly was a much poorer China, a China that was just emerging in the world. This was recovering from years of isolation still, from Mao Zedong and when Deng Xiaoping took over and instituted a bunch of reforms, that's when the economy really started going. So Tim Walz actually saw that from the very get go when he arrived in Hong Kong in 1989. China was still not opened in the way that we've seen.
Ha: After his language training program in Hong Kong, Walz went on to teach English and American history at a high school in Foshan – that’s in Guangdong province in southern China, not far from Hong Kong. Walz said he was given the royal treatment at the Chinese school. His decorated apartment had a color TV and a shortwave radio – luxuries at the time. He was paid 650 yuan or $80 a month, which was double the salary of other teachers. And he left a good impression.
Ten Kate: Yeah, the reporting there shows that Walz was known to teachers and students, by a Cantonese transliteration of his first name. He was very well liked according to people there. He was treated like a celebrity, left a good impression on everyone. In fact, people remembered him for his big smile.
Ha: He must have stood out. I mean, back then, in 1989, you probably didn't see too many white men around in southern China.
Ten Kate: Yeah, definitely. I mean, by all means, he stood out. He's a tall guy anyway, big, tall, Midwestern, white guy showing up in southern China. And by all accounts, he had a real appreciation for his students and they enjoyed having him around. And the proof is probably that he went back over and over again.
Ha: Walz finished his teaching in Guangdong province the next year. And in the following years, he traveled to China frequently.
Ten Kate: He really went out and about. He wanted to explore China and he was doing it the way that the locals would do it. He was taking the train. He was riding the buses. He was spending about a dollar a day going to local places to eat and interacting with just regular folks on the ground. This was a guy who was, he was into it. He was owning it. He was really trying to see it from the ground up and I think that has to leave an impression on you.
Ha: Later, Walz and his wife, Glen Walz, founded a company which organized summer excursions to China for American high school students.
Ten Kate: He wanted to bring other students over to China to have the same experience that he had and then he spent his honeymoon with a bunch of high school kids in southern China, taking them over on a trip. That was his actual honeymoon.
Ha: Super romantic, I'm sure his wife was delighted. (laughter)
Ten Kate: She must have been. What more commitment do you need than that?
Ha: That’s very true. Now how do you think that experience of traveling across China like a local shaped his understanding of China?
Ten Kate: I think what it does is it helps you to really know the place on a ground level. And there's so much in Washington today that we hear people talking about China who have never been to China and who don't know China. So he understands. And I think that's what living there, going there so often, traveling around, you're not looking at the caricature of China. And I think this shows, you know, you got to think about Xi Jinping himself. He spent time in the US in Iowa as a young person and got to know the American people on that level. And so in some ways, Tim Walz had the same experience. And the importance of that is crucial when it comes to policy, particularly if you think about a war, for instance, these are the world's two biggest powers. You have a flashpoint in Taiwan, when Nancy Pelosi went over to Taipei a couple of years ago, there was some real scary moments there, where you had people on Chinese social media saying they should shoot her plane down. There's this real sense that eventually China and the US could be heading towards some sort of military conflict at some point, not imminently, but at some point. And so that makes it all the more important for the leaders of these two countries to actually know what it's like to live in those places, to know the people on the ground.
Ha: After the break, how would Walz’s extensive personal experience in China translate into policy and the impact on already fraught US-China relations if Democrats take the White House?
Li: Some people in the US Congress, or particularly Republicans, think that you have a connection with China, you're doing business with China, you may be brainwashed by China.
Ha: So far, the Harris-Walz campaign has made little mention of his experience in China, and they’ve yet to lay out how Harris or Walz would handle China policies. But throughout his career, Walz has regularly criticized China’s human rights record.
Ten Kate: He's been a big advocate of human rights and democracy in China. In 2016, for example, he had what he called a “life-changing lunch” with the Dalai Lama. On Hong Kong too, Walz has also been quite a big advocate. He was the only House Democrat willing to support the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act of 2017. Activists from Hong Kong were saying back in those days, they were knocking on doors seeking support for this law and no one was really joining in. And then, lo and behold, they go to Walz. And there is Joshua Wong, this iconic Hong Kong activist who is taking on the big powers in Beijing. And he’s there. And Walz just starts talking to him. And he's just blown away by how much Walz knows.
Ha: Walz has also sponsored numerous resolutions that condemn China’s killings in Tiananmen Square and support Chinese activists and lawyers. But despite his consistent advocacy for political freedom and human rights in China, Walz has said he’s not necessarily a China hawk.
Li: He is not like some of our political leaders wanted to decouple with China. He strongly believes engagement.
Ha: That’s professor Li of the University of Hong Kong again. He says Walz’s approach to China is very much aligned with the rest of the Democratic Party.
Li: Harris and the Biden-Harris administration also does not want to have a complete decouple, and they also want to emphasize culture and education exchanges. Tim Walz probably will continue to put human rights, the issues, but the Democrat politicians, no one talked about regime change. This is not their agenda, right? They do discuss about the issue about the human rights, minority rights, Xinjiang, and et cetera. So I think in that regard, Tim Walz also fits in very well. He probably will continue to be critical, but it would be rational not to go too far and not jeopardize the whole thing.
Ha: Walz’s time in China also seems to have earned him more respect there.
Li: One of the issues, in your China relations may not be the ideological differences or the, the conflict of interest, but the misunderstanding, miscalculation. This is particularly by the people who have no ideas about other country, the way of thinking, or some of the basic knowledge. So Tim Walz is the right person to avoid these kind of things. So I think not only Chinese public, but also Chinese leaders are willing to deal with this kind of more knowledgeable people.
Ha: Now professor, do you think Americans’ view of Tim Walz’s knowledge of China and his connection to the country, would they view it as an asset or a liability?
Li: Some people in the US Congress, or particularly Republicans, think that you have a connection with China, you're doing business with China, you may be brainwashed by China. Also sadly, some people just claim that they are the best people to deal with China because they have no experience with China, never been in China, may not have studied the language and have no knowledge of China. That's the qualification. Now, I certainly think that expertise, knowledge, is an asset for American political leader. You again I said even China is the enemy, you should study, you should know better. Not to mention about your friend, how to get along with, how to improve relationship.
Ha: For now, that relationship remains tense – with the world’s two biggest superpowers wrestling over issues from Taiwan to trade to technology.
Ten Kate: I think US politicians in general are wary of China. They don't trust China in particular, and they want to make sure that America stays ahead of China and has an edge on China.
Ha: Here’s Bloomberg’s Dan Ten Kate again.
Ten Kate: So Kamala Harris and Tim Walz really believe that America should stay one step ahead of China, particularly with advanced technology. So that means blocking China's access to high-end semiconductors, high-end chips that can be used for AI, certain biotech, clean energy. These are the things that they want the US to maintain an edge on and that's, you know, for simple reasons. If they do go to war, they don't want American technology used against them. That's the basic premise of that. They do believe, however, that there should be trade. And I think where they think Trump goes too far is with the tariffs. Trump's threatening a 60 percent tariff on China right now. It would be interesting what Tim Walz says in the debate. But Kamala Harris was saying that likening that to a Trump tax on the American people and raising the cost of goods there.
Ha: Now Dan, could Walz’s experience in China help smooth the relations between Washington and Beijing?
Ten Kate: It certainly can’t hurt, right? The problem in all of this is that in Washington, DC, right now, it doesn't pay politically to say anything nice about China. Even if he wants to say nice things about China, if he does, he's going to get brutally attacked by the Republicans and they're going to pounce on anything he has to say. That said, if he does get the vice presidency and Kamala Harris becomes president, that experience that he has can certainly play a role. We know when people get into power that they have much more flexibility than when they're in the campaign period. So we probably just haven't seen, and we probably won't hear really what he thinks about China until he's actually in the office.
.
(Updates to include Tim Walz's comments on his China travel from the Oct. 1 debate)
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