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Q and A with Dockers' Ross Lyon

Q and A with Dockers' Ross Lyon

'Chief football writer Mark Duffield goes head-to-head with Fremantle coach Ross Lyon.

Can you rate your pre-season for us?

All pre-seasons have challenges. You are trying to work them hard without getting injuries – not so much collision but soft tissue. We have had some shadows hanging over us. We re-structured our program. We trained Saturday as opposed to Monday to Friday and they got Thursday off. They came back in really good shape, we had a lot of PBs without being driven and that is the sort of culture we would like to get to – self-directed elite athletes. Everyone bangs on about being normal. Elite athletes aren’t a normal part of the community. There are some responsibilities and sacrifices, really consistent choices that go with being elite at anything. As an AFL player the tools of your trade are your body and they are basically like 400 and 800 metre runners.

They are powerful and they run really well with repeat speed. They came back in really good condition and that enabled us to move into team training a lot quicker than we have in the past so we have had more volume of football, more game style football and because we have had a longer period over the week to do it – Saturday mornings after giving them Thursday off – it gives us an extra day on the legs and we have had more volume of run and quality. At that respect we tick it off but at the back end we have run into some soft tissue stuff. It is not red alert but Fyfe had a little nick and Ibbotson a nick and Ballantyne a calf. Coupled with that Pearce had a little nick, Barlow, Aaron has had that neural back hamstring issue but played fully on the weekend so it hasn’t been perfect but we know that we have worked hard and we feel good about ourselves.

We have tried to change bits and pieces of our game style to try to get better in defence and attack and stoppages and all of those sort of things. It never just goes smoothly. There is some anxiety. It would be easy to stay the same but we were really clear that we changed throughout the year last year. They are only subtle shifts but to us they are significant. We have continued in t hat vein. It has been a challenge. It came together pretty well in our last hit out. We are not unhappy with what we saw against West Coast but still plenty of work to do.

What is the lay-person likely to see that is different about Fremantle this year?

We are going a little bit taller in attack, positioning our talls a little bit different. Some stoppage structures are a little bit different. I think the game went a little bit more end to end against West Coast. There were less stoppages in our football I would have thought. They are probably the obvious things.

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Do you make those changes because you see the game trending a certain way or do you want to avoid being a sitting target for teams who have worked things out about your style?

Predictability can be a strength but it can become a weakness. There were a couple of things that were really strong features about the way that we played that they can start to plan for. You want the same outcome at a ball up or throw in but how do you get that outcome? You can structure up a bit different. You have got to adjust. Teams shift around what they are doing.

A couple of other coaches have made the observation that the game has evolved so much defensively that the next big advance has to be an offensive advance. Do you agree?

I think it is follow the leader a bit. Hawthorn are still strong defensively but have put an offensive gap on the rest of the competition. If you don’t try to catch them you are in trouble so I think logic dictates that are Hawthorn are scoring well and if you want to beat them you have got to be able to match them.

When we did this interview 12 months ago you said you wanted an extra two goals a game. How did you rate your offence last year?

I thought we were quite solid. We kicked the fifth most goals in the competition. I think our attack was sixth or seventh but you are talking about a one point difference in score average between fifth and seventh. The reality is that it became harder to score. You can adjust it to who you play – make it relative to the defences you are playing. If you look at your draw – it is clearly harder to score in finals because you are playing better defences.

Some teams you think have a really good attack but it has been done against bottom eight teams and then they get to top eight teams and they sit 14th for attack. Because we have been a top eight team in the last few years we are playing a lot of the top eight and the top four twice.

If you benchmark your games to make it relative to the defences that you are playing – we weren’t unhappy and we certainly shifted in the back half of the year to be able to score against Port Adelaide and Hawthorn who sat in the top four defences. We would just like to be able to do that a bit more consistently.

And those wins against Port and Hawthorn at home were probably as good as you played last year weren’t they?

No doubt. It didn’t quite pan out that way in the finals although we had some challenges. But even against Port (in the semi-final) we were pretty good and just needed to convert a bit better. They responded really well and we didn’t quite match them. We have shifted a bit from there.

Conversion varies a bit from game to game but has your conversion hurt you in big games over the past two years?

I think that happens. You have got to break them down. Were they pressured shots, were they long range. There are some sitters in there. The trend is your friend and the trend over the two seasons you talk about I think we sit in the top two or three for accuracy in each of those seasons. But as always no-one has cracked the code on goalkicking yet. There is a bit of fatigue and other things. We have got a bio-mechanist filming players. We are getting to Domain Stadium to practice more often, The MCG – we only get there once or twice a year. It can be a really swirly ground and you have got cameras hanging overhead so there are some variables there but in saying that we want to get better.

Are your injuries a concern heading into round one now? You have four (Silvagni, Ballantyne, Suban and Dawson) that are either doubtful or unlikely and three (Duffield, Barlow and Taberner) that need game time.

Am I concerned? It is not ideal but it is no excuse for us. I will plan for those that are available. We have got two weeks to get a couple of them up. Ballantyne could have a knee reconstruction and say he is going to get up. Mick Barlow is an enormous runner and has had a big summer. We would have preferred him to have more game minutes.

Duffield will play this week so no concern there. Dawson is probably the one and Silvagni – key defenders but the upside of that is that we get some great distributors and run down there. Alex and Zac defend really well but they are not the best distributors of the ball so Ibbotson can defend really well and distribute and Michael Johnson is a tall defender who can distribute. Even if we had Silvagni and Dawson there, if we don’t put pressure on further up they wouldn’t stop who they are playing on so it is all about pressure around the ball. We are confident we can overcome the challenge.

It is a test of your depth too isn’t it? How do you rate your 2015 depth?

I never really understand depth. It gets bandied about a bit . I know that the best indicator of success is having your best players available consistently. Everyone bangs on about depth but as soon as you get injuries it becomes ‘well we haven’t got him playing’. We are no different. You need your best players out there. . But we have proven in the past – we haven’t proven it this year - but in 2013 we had an horrendous run – Pavlich, Sandilands, Fyfe and Hill and people stepped up to the plate. The challenge is to do that again.

I don’t think we have got great depth in the key position stocks and we are strong for running players, flankers and that kind of thing. Not for power forwards, power defenders – but you are seeing that with West Coast aren’t you. They had Elliot Yeo playing on Pavlich because they have lost Mackenzie and Brown. That is a bit like us with Dawson and Silvagni. Your depth gets challenged pretty quickly, depending on key areas. You can always be better but I am not uncomfortable with it.

The age of your list – Now the oldest in the competition. Is it a concern?

It is a story but Paul Roos and I often have a laugh because sometimes you read the paper and could be forgiven for thinking you win the premiership if you have the youngest list in the competition. It is quite funny really. At some point I am sure we will get to the point where we are the 15th oldest and I can walk in and say we are losing because we are 15th oldest.

One of the commentators said to me that we had X amount of players who were 29. It is where you put the cut off figure. Some of them are going to play all year at 28 and then turn 29 at the end of the year. Quantitative studies can be lies damn lies, statistics, lies damn lies. We know our 25 and unders and it is about the quality of the 25 and unders you have got. We know that Fyfe, Hill, Suban, Walters, Neale and Zac Clarke are pretty solid. It is not something I sit down and bang on about. There has been a strategic shift. People want to be in the top four for age and games experience because it gives you a good opportunity. As long as you have got quality. This has been the oldest list in the comp before and the highest paid in 2008 and finished near the bottom.

I don’t get caught up in formulas too much. People want to write stories and they are entitled to but it doesn’t mean the stories are always accurate. The reality is that we had clubs offer David Mundy a five year deal last year when he was 29. What does that tell you? I think it has shifted how long players are playing and where they can play. Shaun Burgoyne got a two year deal at 33 I think. The incentive is there for players to prepare and commit because the money is there. 33 is the old 30. You get to 30 and everyone is panicking. If you look at Geelong, their best players are 32 or 33.

What is the real trend? Older players are playing for longer because they are incentivised to do it and they still have a few years left in them. In 2013 people wrote no Sandilands, no Pavlich, no McPharlin. We went to a grand final and those guys came back late. We love those guys playing and we respect them but Fyfe would giggle if you said mate, no Pavlich, no Sandilands, no McPharlin, your career and team chances are over at this club. I think it is a story that we don’t write, everyone else writes, but we have got to prove that wrong.

Are you happy with the way your list is evolving then and the way you are building quality underneath?

What is really important is that it is not my view. We have a list management committee, Brad Lloyd our list manager and head recruiter really reports directly to our CEO. I just sit at the side of it, as does Chris Bond. We have a list management committee and we are doing enormous analysis now. It is about the collective view and where we see ourselves that we all sign off on. Then what do we need and how are we going to get there. Where are we at the minute? We are still doing a lot of analysis and planning, preparing and strategising so we can all sign off on it. Really simply if you are winning, finishing top four and challenging it makes for easy decisions to keep guys.

If we are 3-8 at the halfway mark then we will change who plays. The wins and losses tell you a little bit about what you need to do as well. In my first year the draftees, Neale, Sutcliffe, Crozier and Sheridan – two of them are automatics and Crozier forced Matty De Boer out of the team last year while Tommy Sheridan is coming. Max Duffy played on the weekend so there is five. If we are 3-8 at the halfway mark we will probably say to Luke we will wind you up even if he wanted to play on and Alex Pearce would play every game.

Alastair Clarkson was quoted as saying to his young guys you are probably not going to get much opportunity this year because we are a really mature team going for three in a row but we need you to grow and develop while you are being sheltered a little bit. We are no different. Blakely can really play but he has got some reasonable players ahead of him. Just to put a tight point on it. It is not about my view. We come together as a list management committee which the president sits in on, Ben Allan does as footy director and we get all of the information, then you collate it and analyse it and get a strategic plan. It is not something we advertise to the world either. Some of the deficiencies are clear. Grow a key defender like Alex Pearce or it would be nice to get one through the door – we went for Frawley, there is Alex Rance floating around. We have tried for a key forward but if you don’t get them there is only one other way and that is grow players like Taberner. We haven’t had that much access to early draft picks so it is an ongoing challenge but it is on the agenda.

Taggers have been good for you over your coaching career – Clint Jones at St Kilda, Ryan Crowley here. If you have to replace Ryan, can you?

Of course we can. We are all replaceable. The role exists, new people come in and do it. Do they do it as well? That is the debate isn’t it. Clint Jones was an outside attacking wingman for South Fremantle so it is all about attitude isn’t it. Clancee Pearce has done a bit of it, Matty De Boer has done a bit of it, Tendai has done it. We can do it. It is about attitude. We feel that we have got the coaches to support that player but we should make it clear it is never Ryan on his own. We all show clips where the player has had it 20 times and our other payers just roll over and cover him. That is what the good teams do. Sydney do it very well. It is never one but you are right it is a challenge. I am excited. Shiels at Hawthorn plays on them and works off them so there is plenty of ways to skin the cat. We didn’t tag anyone against West Coast at the weekend.

How much of a focus has improving flexibility been? We have seen Mayne in defence, Mundy and Hill running off half back and Fyfe at opportune times pushing forward. Have you worked hard on that?

It has probably been something I haven’t done as well as I would have liked in the past. Hill and Mundy are great distributors, they will get tagged, they can go off half back – Mayne down back was out of necessity. We have got a number of mids that can play half back and down forward. That really helps you on game day when things go wrong. It is something we have consciously worked on and it is still a work in progress.

How is your younger group developing: Crozier, Sheridan, Sutcliffe, Neale etc?

I think Blakely will jump in there pretty quickly. But most of them are fourth year players. Everyone talks about first year players but they are not physically equipped to contribute. It takes a freak to come in, in their first year, Pendlebury in his first year played 10 or 14 games in the twos. There is an unrealistic expectation.

People who have unrealistic expectations about first year players coming in and impacting don’t have in depth knowledge about what is required to play AFL footy and the physical demands and the game. That is why it takes pre-seasons to build that level of strength in the body. Our young players put on 8, 9, 10, 12 kilos and improve their running. The speed of the game from the WAFL to the AFL is a second to two seconds different but that two seconds is the difference between playing 200 game sin the WAFL or being an AFL player. Some just can’t bridge the gap.

It is about physical development, it is about early decisions – particularly without the ball is the difference. This club has invested for a long period of time in its academy which was part of the plan originally and we haven’t backed away from that, Simon Lloyd heads that up with the development coaches. We would be concerned if no-one was coming through but from the first draft since I got here – Sutcliffe, Neale, Crozier, Sheridan are coming through. Late picks by the way too. Rookie list players too, Taberner was a rookie listed player which makes him about pick 120 in the draft process. He is going into a third year in the competition and he has developed.

We don’t sit here thinking no-one is coming on. Unfortunately someone who had the real tools couldn’t apply himself – Josh Simpson. Max Duffy is coming on. Alex Pearce with a run at it, we are confident in. Connor Blakely already. We feel we are developing them but we will drive them pretty hard and try to mature them. But we are not thinking it is not working. We would like a few more to develop. The wins and losses will determine a lot. We are not going to gift it but someone like Sheridan and Paul Duffield– those older guys 29 or 30 need to make sure that they are up because if it becomes a fifty fifty bet and we are not winning it has got to be the youth. Our guys understand that. Tendai is another one who is a bit older. They have got to make sure they are on top of their game. They are decisions that protect you a bit further down the path.

Fyfe is already one of the best five players in the competition. Can he get better?

Of course he can get better, He needs to improve his distribution. He knows that. His knowledge around clearances can get better, he can become a better centre square bounce player. He can become a better leader onfield. You look at Hodge and Mitchell – not through competitiveness but the ability to organise and direct in game situations is his area of growth, His leadership is already coming on. His desire – he has always had the capacity but his understanding of how to influence Monday to Friday and how to set and enforce standards – he is really buying into that, he is fantastic in meetings. He is contributing and helping to drive the group. Previously he had his hands full becoming an elite player himself but he is at that level and it is that self-actualisation of leadership, of bringing others with him along the way and driving the club. To his credit that is exactly what he is doing. If he didn’t do that what you end up with is a great player who never becomes a leader of your footy club.

Could he be the best player in the competition in 2015?

I don’t get caught up in labelling them. Gary Ablett junior is a pretty good player, Pendlebury is a pretty good player. Nathan has got some unique attributes. We love him and fortunately he is with us. It is very hard to separate the top players in this competition. On their day they are freaks, Buddy’s best is very, very good There are some pretty special players out there. Nathan clearly sits comfortably up around the lead in the competition but he has got plenty of improvement in him and he would tell you that himself. Nathan knows better than me where he can improve.

Is Connor Blakely a chance to play in round one?

Yeah he is a chance. He wins the ball well, he is very composed and has come to hand with our gamestyle pretty quickly. He has played WAFL last year but at the end of the day the WAFL and under 18s don’t work that hard without the ball and can play circle work – get it kick it, if they have got it hopefully they give it back. That AFL works pretty hard to get it back off you pretty quickly and he is adapting really quickly but he has got to work to do still.

Can you give us an update on Colin Sylvia?

It is status quo from my end. He is at Peel. Mark Stone talks to him once a week, our conditioners liase with him. I haven’t spoken to Col since he has gone down there because there is no need to. He has had a couple of games down there, he came off at half time with a quad. It was scanned and there was nothing there and was able to train fully that week. That is probably the thing – Col’s ability to work through and complete games of footy. This was a bit of a theme for Col last year – he had some challenges of working through and completing games and training sessions.

Hopefully he can work through that. I still see possibility. That opportunity is there for Col and I think he is making some strides but he has still got some work to do. It is about measurables. He has been turning up and training and playing. His numbers he is punching out are quite steady. We need him to complete some games fully without interruption and give us four weeks of solid performance. That would be great. I see possibility in everyone – even at their lowest ebb. If we didn’t see possibility we wouldn’t be supporting them fully resourced, doctors, physios, coaches, conditioners but at some point you have got to stack a bloc or work together. By Col’s own admission he let himself down for a fair period so he is the one that needs to battle. You are always fighting that battle within. He needs to win that battle consistently.

You are a very pragmatic coach Ross do you allow yourself to get disappointed in something like that?

Clearly you get frustrated that it has got to this point. You hope it would never get to this point. The ultimate aim of free agency is to help the group we have got here. When we got to the finals last year and we got some injuries it would have been nice if he could have helped deliver against Sydney and Port Adelaide. That is the disappointment and the frustration but it is what it is. I can’t make them do anything. All we do is play them well, fully resource them and ask them to do the work. It is not too much to ask.