Matthew Pavlich still gets anxious thinking about those dreaded words - life after footy.
Despite being regarded as one of the best adjusted AFL players, the Fremantle captain says no matter how well a player prepares, the anxiety about facing life post-Sherrin is inescapable.
"It's the unknown, I guess," Pavlich, who is almost half way through an MBA, told WestBusiness in Fremantle this week.
"In footy, you're living this selfish existence, in a bubble really, and until you step out of that it's quite daunting.
"And no matter how much someone studies, no matter how much someone sets themself up, it is still such a foreign world."
It is something the 291-game veteran has been forced to think about more often as his career reaches its twilight.
Pavlich has been active in the business space, as well as media, in the past. Most notably, he bought a stake in Fremantle's Seaview Hotel and the Stock Road Market Tavern in Bibra Lake in the late-2000s; stakes which he no longer owns.
But with the life after footy in mind, Pavlich has officially dipped his toe into the corporate side of the business world with a venture called PickStar, an online platform giving organisations the chance to pitch an event idea directly to an athlete.
The venture is the brainchild of former St Kilda and Adelaide star James Begley, an old friend of Pavlich's from his early playing days in Adelaide.
Begley, the company's majority shareholder, said the concept, launched last month, attempted to break down barriers between an athlete and a potential client.
"For example, we had one recently where a rugby player was booked to take one of a company's best clients out to lunch, as they knew the client was a big rugby fan," Begley said.
"There's a real appetite to get access to athletes, and I know there's an appetite from the players to do more. And the more businesses understand what's possible, the more creative they are becoming with the idea."
The website has 350 athletes on its books. Pavlich said PickStar allowed anyone to sidestep the archaic methods around trying to get access athletes by providing their services online.
"In the past you either had to know an athlete, or use more traditional methods, so we're trying to break down the barriers," he said.
Pavlich, who helped Begley develop the idea, is a director in the company but holds no shares. He said his role would be more at arm's length as he juggled study and footy.
With a Bachelor of Science at University of WA under his belt - and possibly an MBA by the time his career wraps up - Pavlich said he was happily undecided about what he would be doing in business 10 years from now.
"To be frank, I don't know exactly," he said. "But I think doing these things at UWA allows me to position myself quite well post-career.
"I do see myself being involved in the corporate world, in some type of business area, whether that's up or down St Georges Terrace or involved in something like this (PickStar), who knows."