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Australia's chilling cult transcript

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Rick Ross: The idea that the group is coming together in a community and that Miller is developing a compound in my opinion is ominous because only the most extreme cults isolate themselves in a compound. Jonestown or a Waco Davidian group which were two groups that ended tragically in mass suicide. This is when groups become the most extreme because the leader controls everything.

DAVID MILLIKAN: The leader is this man Alan John Miller.

Alan John Miller: My name is Alan John Miller but I am actually Jesus.
I remember all of the events of my crucifixion, I understood what was going on and I understood the reason for my death.

DAVID MILLIKAN: And, he's collecting disciples. Miller has convinced them that they were with him at his crucifixion.

David Walsh (Cornelius): I went to get the spike and smash it into his hands and there was just so much love that came from it, I couldn't do it.

Mary: I was excruciating to watch basically the annihilation of the person that I loved the most.

Alex: Whenever I think about him now I just cry, I am starting to have a soul like an emotional realisation of who he is.

DAVID MILLIKAN: I am on the way to Murgon in country Queensland for two days of teachings by Yeshua Joseph or Jesus. It's a gathering of the faithful from around the world.

AJ Miller: Welcome along. I'm Jesus, this is Mary. And so what we want to do today is talk about addictions and bribery and fear, threats and blackmail. I can feel that many of you are still in addictions with regard
to your development towards God. I've got all of these emotional injuries.
I will feed them with my truth. These things are not going to go away from you just by you getting baptised.

DAVID MILLIKAN: To me these words sound like rehashed new age pop psychology, but for these people they burn the light of Divine Truth.

AJ Miller: Feel the dissolution, the dissolution about the search.

DAVID MILLIKAN: What is happening here is AJ is talking about emotions
and most religions are suspicious of emotions. They see faith as essentially a thing of the mind but emotions take us to the heart of AJ's teachings. What he is doing is setting up a sort of spiral where people get dragged down and down and down and people are asked to plumb the depth of their emotions from which many of them can never escape.

Let yourself feel what it was like to have to shut yourself down so much just to please your mother because that's what she wants you to do,
she wants to shut you down so much and she was giving you all these sentiments and wants heaps of things in return from you and that feels bad to you. One of his demands to draw people is to demand that they find emotional trauma in their family history.

AJ Miller: Let yourself feel what it was like to have to shut yourself down so much just to please your mother. Because that's what she wants you to do shut your down so much and she was giving you all these things but she wanted a whole load of things in return for that and that doesn't feel good. That's it allow yourself to connect, that's it, and as you connect to that, you will start really connecting, that's it. And as you connect, that's how much rage is there, you see, this is the childhood rage coming out. That's it, that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it. And this is the childhood rage that is still in there. Let yourself feel that. Do you feel that?

DAVID MILLIKAN: And children are being caught in Miller's web as well.

AJ Miller: What do you think was happening? How do you feel?

Young girl: Well, that my dad didn't want my

DAVID MILLIKAN: Before he became Jesus Miller was a Jehova's Witness Pastor but fell out with the Church after an incident with a prostitute. I first met him and Mary during the Queensland floods. For many years, Miller made his money from land development and a computer business. But now, he believes he holds the salvation of the world in his hands. Along with a growing number of disciples who are buying properties next to him he lives outside Kingaroy in Queensland.

AJ Miller: My first memories were having nails driven through my feet
and those memories began when I was just over two years of age so I didn't put them together as "I'm Jesus" from that. So I just slotted it into the back of my head and merely went on with my life until such a time as I starred having a lot more specific memories about my life which happened when I was 33, really.

DAVID MILLIKAN: Is it true that your mother tried to commit you to a psychiatric ward?

AJ Miller: Yes, it is true, yes and so and these are the things that I knew would occur. This is why I went, "What I have got?" to like I am having all of these memories of who I am and I realise all of these different things coming up and I also think about my future and I go, "Boy, do I really want to bite this off again?" My mum and dad in the first century followed me around, telling everyone I was crazy for most of my ministry, so, you know, my father didn't even change his mind until my passing in the first century.

DAVID MILLIKAN: So can you show me the nail marks in your hands?

AJ Miller: Of course not, because it's not the same body.

DAVID MILLIKAN: Miller spreads the word via the web, YouTube and seminars here and around the world. He claims there are 100, 000 of his DVDs in circulation. He calls his message the Diving Love Path and provides oneness with God through AJ's teachings.

AJ Miller: How long have you been doing the path?

Follower: Praying for God's love and courage and strength because I am feeling a lot of fear right now. Um, two and a bit months.

AJ Miller: Two and a bit months.

It's torn my life to pieces, I have lost my wife, I have lost my home, I have lost my family. It's been tremendously devastating and yet he is calling this Divine Love. If Miller walked into the room right now
and they way I feel right at this point, initially I'd have him up against the wall and I would look at him right in the eyes and rip the (bleep) throat right out.

DAVID MILLIKAN: Miller's reach is international. In San Francisco I met Dhughaighn MacMhuirch whose wife Jennifer fell under Miller's spell.
Tell me about Jen before she knew AJ.

Dhughaighn: Yes, Jennifer was one of the most effervescent and lively spirits out into a body that I had ever seen. One of the most amazing connections that I had ever had with another human being.

DAVID MILLIKAN: Jennifer was introduced to Miller's teachings by two Australian friends and became captivated. She would watch and listen upto five hours a day.

Dhughaighn: Every day there would be more downloads and it was continuous. I watched Jen over the course of a month or so basically become so absorbed in it that it seemed to be the whole focus. For her it was everything that she would be listening to. She came to me with tears and said to me, "Dhughaighn, he really is Jesus." "AJ really is Jesus."

DAVID MILLIKAN: Unbeknown to her husband she began donating money to Miller and communicating by phone and email. Miller raised doubts about whether her husband was her soul mate.

Dhughaighn: Apparently there is some requirement for soul mates according to AJ Miller which brought into our relationship the innuendo of doubt as to whether or not she and I were soul mates. It was as if a third party sitting right between us all the time and I was watching Jennifer basically just disappear.

DAVID MILLIKAN: Within five months Jennifer left Dhughaighn and planned to fly to Australia to be with Miller. Desperate, Dhughaighn contacted Rick Ross, America's leading cult de-programer to stage an intervention.

Rick Ross: When Dhughaighn first contacted me, he was very worried and he was hoping that somehow through and intervention they might reconcile. I explained to Jennifer that after me meeting many, many cult leaders that claimed to be Jesus or God, how could she be so sure that Miller was in fact Jesus. And all that she could respond was the teachings make me feel good and there was a kind of euphoria that she experienced from listening to the tapes. And in a sense, this is a key to the way that Miller quells
their critical thinking, induces the kind of self hypnosis that I have seen. They put their headphones on and they listen to their downloads
for hours on end and I think this has a mind-numbing effect on them.

DAVID MILLIKAN: The intervention failed.

Rick Ross: Basically Miller sets himself up as God, he is Jesus Christ,
he is a God man and if you disagree with him, you disagree with God. So if you have a spouse or a family member and they are critical of Miller, they have come against God and therefore they are not spiritually right for you.
Whereas Miller might say they are not your soul mate.

Female follower: Yesterday morning I left my husband after 30 years and um...

AJ Miller: Yesterday morning...?

Female follower: Yes and I knew that it was something that I needed to do
because I was in an unloving situation and I knew that I no longer loved
him and so I was not living in truth but it was still very hard and I am still very sad.

DAVID MILLIKAN: I have talked to so many people around you...

AJ Miller: Yep.

DAVID MILLIKAN: ..who are married, some of them married for many years
and I ask them a question - how long have you been married - and some of them say, "25 years." I say, "Is your wife your soul mate?"

AJ Miller: And they would say, "I don't know.

DAVID MILLIKAN: They say, "I don't know."

AJ Miller: And that's OK.


AJ Miller: Why?

DAVID MILLIKAN: That puts a tremendous pressure, marriages are breaking up around you because of this teaching about soul mates.

AJ Miller: It will become very obvious to you whether the person you are currently with is your soul mate or not. And this is why it's so good to be in your current relationship and work through the issues until you get to the point where you know that this isn't right. And when you know that it isn't right, obviously that is the time for you to leave.

AJ Miller: My teachings are all about love developing relationships.

DAVID MILLIKAN: No, they are not, AJ.

AJ Miller: They are.

DAVID MILLIKAN: They are not. A lot of your teachings are about addictions, about emotions, about fear, about struggle, about...You take people into a sort of holocaust, an emotional holocaust.

AJ Miller:Yes, I can't agree with that, David. I'm sorry.

DAVID MILLIKAN: Well, that's what I see.

AJ Miller: When you start opening this soul mate side of you, what will happen is every other attraction that you have ever had will start to die.

DAVID MILLIKAN: Do you think that you will ever stop missing her, Dhughaighn?

Dhughaighn: No, I mean I didn't find the person I wanted to marry until I was 56 years old. No, I will never get over missing her. I am really, really, really amazed by just the stunning arrogance that this man has to claim what he is claiming. I mean, he is about his...How does one say...
I don't think he would know Jesus if Jesus...if Jesus came nd bit him on the arse.

Part 2:

DAVID MILLIKAN: Tell me what you think about AJ, who is AJ to you?

Female follower: He is bringer of truth. I feel that he is the Messiah,
he is the messenger of God's truth to help us wake up.

Male follower: Yes, he is, he is Jesus.

DAVID MILLIKAN: Wow and you have just discovered that.

I have only just discovered that, yes, since I have been on this path,
throughout AJ's teachings that's how we come to God.

DAVID MILLIKAN: AJ, do you always tell the truth?

AJ Miller: Um, I...I always attempt to as far as I know it at that time, yes.

DAVID MILLIKAN: So did you walk on water, AJ?

AJ Miller: No.

DAVID MILLIKAN: Did you raise Lazareth from the dead?

AJ Miller: Yes.

DAVID MILLIKAN: So are you saying you are doing some miracles but not other sorts?

AJ Miller: There is a few miracles in the Bible that I didn't do, but the rest, I did.


AJ Miller: Most of the miracles involving recovery of people's sight,
the recovery of their limbs but the walking on water is one of the things that I didn't do.


AJ Miller: Um, another one that I didn't do was turning the water into wine.

DAVID MILLIKAN: You didn't? So you couldn't give a nice little chardonnay?

AJ Miller: Do you want a drop now, do you? No. No.

DAVID MILLIKAN: Millers shares his home in Queensland with a woman 13 years his juniour.

Mary Luck: The way that I first met AJ was at a talk at my parents' home. They had invited him to be there and he just happened to be in our living room... (LAUGHS) a talk and that's how we met, yeah.

DAVID MILLIKAN: One of the remarkable ironies of your life is the role of your parents.

Mary Luck: My parents told me that they had found out through someone else
that AJ felt that I was his soul mate.

DAVID MILLIKANSo what has happened with you and your family?

DAVID MILLIKAN: A former aid worker she was born Mary Luck but AJ has convinced her that she is Mary Magdalene. So what's happened with you and your family?

Mary Luck: I feel quite sad about it, David, yes. Um, just that they, um,
they don't accept what I want to do with my life at the moment. They don't agree with, um, the way that I am living it.

DAVID MILLIKAN: But they introduced you.

Mary Luck: I know. Yeah, sadly my brother has said to me he thinks I have gone mad, yeah. I have memories being at the crucifixion which are quite intense and I remember being there and just the intense feeling of my soul mate, someone I feel very connected to suffering immensely although I feel I have suffered more than he did. But just because of the development
in love that he had at that time but for myself. It was excruciating to watch, basically, the inhalation of the person that I loved the most.

Mary Luck: It feels like I might die from grief and, um, it's so real.

DAVID MILLIKAN: You have convinced Mary...

AJ Miller: Have convinced Mary?

Mary Luck: How has he convinced me?

DAVID MILLIKAN: You did not think that you were Mary Magdalene.

AJ Miller: I never even told her, Mary, she is Mary Magdalene.

DAVID MILLIKAN: You didn't tell her?

AJ Miller: No, I did not.

DAVID MILLIKAN: So how can you say that I convinced Mary?

DAVID MILLIKAN: Well, after she meets you she's convinced that she is Mary Magdalene.

AJ Miller: Well, that is her. I never spoke to her about it.

DAVID MILLIKAN: You had no thoughts about that beforehand, did you?

Mary Luck: No, but to be honest I really had no idea who Mary Magdalene was.

DAVID MILLIKAN: How many Mary Magdalene has there been in your life?

AJ Miller: There is only one Mary Magdalene in my life.

DAVID MILLIKAN: But there has been others. Is it two, three...?

AJ Miller: No. No, you're not asking me, you are telling me.

DAVID MILLIKAN: Alright, I am asking you. OK. Did you tell other girls before Mary that they were Mary Magdalene.

AJ Miller: I...I told, um, yes, definitely one girl.

Rick Ross: Mr Miller seems to use his position as Jesus to get sexual favours from women that he attracted to. And so he says, "Well, this women is Mary Magdalene, "wait a minute, no, this women is Mary Magdalene."
It reminds me of many so-called cult leaders that I have run into over the years who use their position of spiritual authority to get want they want
sexually, financially, in whatever means they wish from that people that become their followers.

DAVID MILLIKAN: Miller has an inner core of about 30 disciples who have in his words forsaken all to be with him and to learn at his feet.

AJ Miller: Can you just allow yourself to feel the sexual feelings but understand when they're out of harmony with love and when they're out of harmony with love, not to act upon them. Does that make sense.

DAVID MILLIKAN: They're are hundreds more who believe he is Jesus and many thousands who are intrigued by his teachings.

AJ Miller: These are the reasons why divine love doesn't flow all the time to most people because they're unwilling to have the awakening as to the perception of their true self.

DAVID MILLIKAN: And there is a special 13, his chosen apostles.

David Walsh (Cornelius): I am called Cornelius and that was my name in the first century, that was my identity, my soul identity.

DAVID MILLIKAN: At Murgon I met Cornelius and Jodie who left her husband to follow Miller. Both believe they lived at the time of Christ. So you knew Jesus?

David Walsh (Cornelius): As such I saw him and listened to what he was saying. I did come across him once and I asked him about one of my
servants that was sick and he healed the servant. I was just quite amazed at what he did until the time come when we were asked to go and execute him
and my troops had to go and nail him to the stake. It was like a pole, it was me that had to do that and as I went to get the spike and smash it into his hands, he just kept looking at me and there was just so much love there that come from him and I could not do it. I just threw the mallet down
the spike down and just waked off and that was pretty much my death sentence in those times, you don't do that.

DAVID MILLIKAN: So do you think that he is Jesus?

Jodie Creek: I feel at times that yes, he is Jesus and yes, Mary is Mary Magdalene and what I feel is the beautiful friendship we had together
and the loss of that.

AJ Miller: Let yourself feel the disillusionment. You feel the disillusionment about the search....

DAVID MILLIKAN: Miller's followers are being convinced that there is an eternal battle between good and evil spirits controlling their behaviour.

DAVID MILLIKAN: How does it manifest in you?

Alex: How does it manifest in me...? Well, in the past it's caused me to do unloving things because I am so open, spirits hook into me, basically step into my body and cause me to do things like drink all night, take drugs, you know, have sex with random women, just a whole lot of unloving things. And that's because of my soul condition, it's allowed a lot of dark spirits to do that.

AJ Miller: Can you feel how once you start recognising the addictions you have in play particularly the ones with spirits, how instantly the spirits
up the ante.

DAVID MILLIKAN: Tell me about AJ?

Alex: Whenever I think about him now I just cry, I am starting to have a soul like an emotional realisation of who he is it's overwhelming cause I know that only God can save me but I feel that he saved me through his teachings and love that I have experienced through anyone else. And I've been looking for a long time.

DAVID MILLIKAN: If I gather 10 of your people...

AJ Miller: Yes.

DAVID MILLIKAN: ..and start talking to them, within a minute they are talking about the struggle and just about everyone I talk to is on the verge of tears.

AJ Miller: But you notice that I don't view it as a struggle.

DAVID MILLIKAN: Look at poor Alex.

AJ Miller: Sorry?

DAVID MILLIKAN: That poor guy, he is just consumed...

AJ Miller: He is. And I have talked to Alex many times about him allowing the spirits to almost completely control his life.

DAVID MILLIKAN: I think you are at the early stages of becoming a cult leader.

AJ Miller: Well... (LAUGHS) ..I don’t see how I can be a cult leader when I ask everybody to actually engage their own desires.

DAVID MILLIKAN: You're on the way, AJ. You are beginning to, look, you are beginning to gather all the means of control to yourself, you are the only source of knowledge within the group.

AJ Miller: No, that is not true at all.

DAVID MILLIKAN: You are separating people away from their families.

AJ Miller: No, I'm not.

DAVID MILLIKAN: How many people have I talked to? One of the questions
that I ask them - was what does your family think - time after time.

AJ Miller: Now, David, read your Bible. What was said about me in the first century, you engage, what does it say Jesus did in the first century.

DAVID MILLIKAN: Yes, that's right. Say it. (LAUGHS) Yes, that Jesus said that your greatest enemy would be your family.

AJ Miller: Well, why do you think I said that in the first century?

DAVID MILLIKAN: But that is not you and you are not Jesus.

AJ Miller: No, that's your opinion.

Part 3

Child: Like, if someone was earth and they were in the 22nd sphere and they wanted to go to the spirit world, like, with their soul, can they do that?

DAVID MILLIKAN: This is one of Miller's DVDs. Not only is he targeting vulnerable adults, he's also targeting children into his warped world.

Child: I was wondering if my mum and dad are soul mates?

AJ Miller: Well, I might be able to tell you it but I am not going to.

Child 2: There was another question that you might not be able to tell me but if you really desired to die but you knew that it is not good to commit suicide, would your law of attraction bring that to you.

AJ Miller: Yes.

Child 3: Does God have a mum and dad?

AJ Miller: Does God have a mum and dad?

AJ Miller: Now, that is the hardest possible question that I can answer and I have lived now for 2,000 years and I don't know the answer to that question.

Rick Ross: You know, Miller is still a fairly new leader. I mean, he hasn't really fully developed his group, it is still in its early stages.
But the idea that the group is coming together in a community and that Miller is developing a compound, in my opinion is ominous. Again and again historically the most extreme expressions of cults have been in compounds and some of the most terrible cult tragedies have been associated with that type of isolation.

AJ Miller: This is the 600 acres that I was telling you about, it is currently owned by four different people. And what they are doing is
they are just waiting for the organisation to be set up as a non-profit organisation and then they want to donate the land to the organisation.

DAVID MILLIKAN: With money from his believers Miller is acquiring properties here and around the world.

AJ Miller: It sort of goes in that direction about a kilometre and that direction about a kilometre from here and then it goes up the hill.

DAVID MILLIKAN: He calls them sanctuaries in preparation for the great cataclysm he's prophesying will engulf the planet. From the chaos he will emerge the saviour.

DAVID MILLIKAN: Let's look at some of the things that I know you've said are going to happen. Like that there that a continent was
going to rise next door to Hawaii...

AJ Miller: Yes.

DAVID MILLIKAN:..causing a 100 metre tsunami that would sweep over Australia.

AJ Miller: I'll go further than that if you wish.

DAVID MILLIKAN: And that there was going to be an earthquake, a evastating earthquake and so on. You made those predictions.

AJ Miller: And all those are going to happen.

AJ Miller: The Earth itself is going to change a lot in the next few years and what you now know as countries, some of them will disappear
completely, other ones will change completely.

DAVID MILLIKAN: On one level AJ Miller is just a buffoon on another level he has found the ingredient that make men like him dangerous. If he goes on he will continue to separate parents from the their children, wives from their husbands, and take money from his followers. I think there are two Ajs, one AJ is a friendly, aussie, character.

AJ Miller: Aussie bloke, yeah.

DAVID MILLIKAN: The other has a heart of tyrant and that's where you're heading.

AJ Miller: I disagree totally.

DAVID MILLIKAN: I see it. I am worried about what you're doing um I don't think it will end well.

AJ Miller: For whom?

DAVID MILLIKAN: For you and those around you.

AJ Miller: Right.

DAVID MILLIKAN: And, I'd like to meet you again in 10 years time and see.

AJ Miller: Can I make a prediction for you David?


AJ Miller: You're going to want to meet me much sooner thatn 10 years time.

DAVID MILLIKAN: Now, what does that mean?

AJ Miller: Well, it just means that many of your current thoughts will change over the coming three or four years in my opinion.

DAVID MILLIKAN: Are you saying I'll become convinced?

AJ Miller: I'm saying I am saying that you will start thinking that 'wow' maybe there is something in this so I'm happy to speak with you should you be on earth in four years time or whether you'll be in the spirit world in four years time.

DAVID MILLIKAN: AJ, don't hold your breathe, mate, mate.

AJ Miller: Well, let me tell you some thing, many people in the 1st Century have told me the same thing to me as what you are saying to me right now and many times they've come back at a later point in time and have wanted to have far deeper discussions about the matter.

DAVID MILLIKAN: Ok, look thank you.

AJ Miller: No worries, it's our pleasure.